Boo-yah! Eligibility Post!

[ficmod]

Welcome! To the 2019 Eligibility Post!

This is the place to make your case for any canons that you know live in the gray area of "does this count as ten years old?" I will keep a running list here of the canons that I have decided on, one way or another.

When making your case, please include the canon's full name (as you would nominate it in the tagset), the date(s) of all the canon material that has been released, and your reasoning as to why I should accept it. Here's an example:

Ella Enchanted - Gail Carson Levine (1997)

A prequel, Ogre Enchanted, was published in 2018. While the events of Ogre take place in the same timeline/continuity, it follows a main character who did not appear in Ella. The main cast of Ogre is for the most part completely separate, apart from two characters (their identities being spoilers) who were extensively mentioned in Ella, but appeared only briefly in the original book. Therefore, I feel as if the two novels should be considered separate canons.

ETA 2/10/19: In cases of tie-in comics and novels, my rule of thumb is: 1. are the tie-ins well known? 2. are they by the same creators? and 3. does it clearly follow the original canon in terms of continuity/characters? If the answer is "no" to at least two of these, I won't consider them as disqualifying material. If you disagree with me about a particular judgment call, feel free to point out why - I'm not super familiar with everything, and Google can only do so much!

Reviewed Fandoms

Avatar: The Last Airbender - NOT ACCEPTED

Babylon 5 - ACCEPTED

Babysitter's Club (Ann M. Martin) - ACCEPTED

Band of Brothers (TV) - ACCEPTED

Batman Beyond (tv series) - ACCEPTED

Battlestar Galactica (TV) - ACCEPTED

Bewitched (TV) - ACCEPTED

Birds of Prey, Vol 1 - ACCEPTED

Blake's 7 (TV) - ACCEPTED

Carnivale (TV) - ACCEPTED

Cowboy Bebop (anime) - ACCEPTED

Dead Like Me (TV) - ACCEPTED

Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman - ACCEPTED

Excalibur (Comic) - ACCEPTED

Farscape (TV) - ACCEPTED

Final Fantasy VIII (1999) - ACCEPTED

Final Fantasy IX (2000) - ACCEPTED

Firefly (TV) - ACCEPTED

Gabriel (2007) - ACCEPTED

Harry Potter (J. K. Rowling) - NOT ACCEPTED

Hellsing (manga) - ACCEPTED

Highlander - ACCEPTED

Inuyasha - A Feudal Fairy Tale (manga) - ACCEPTED

The L Word (TV) - ACCEPTED

Man from UNCLE (TV) - ACCEPTED

Percy Jackson (book series) - NOT ACCEPTED

Practical Magic (1998) - ACCEPTED

The Pretender (TV) - ACCEPTED

Ravenous (1999) - ACCEPTED

Rurouni Kenshin (anime) - ACCEPTED

Sabrina the Teenage Witch (1996 - 2003) - ACCEPTED

Shoujo Kakumei Utena | Revolutionary Girl Utena (Anime) - ACCEPTED

Stargate Atlantis - ACCEPTED

Stargate SG-1 - ACCEPTED

Stargate Universe - NOT ACCEPTED
Star Trek: Voyager - ACCEPTED

Sweet Valley High/Confidential - NOT ACCEPTED

Sweet Valley Junior High/Twins/Senior Year/University - ACCEPTED

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (TV) - ACCEPTED
 
Terminator (movie series) - NOT ACCEPTED

Xena Warrior Princess (TV) - ACCEPTED

Young Riders (TV) - ACCEPTED

Comments

[wierdalienfantasies]

Excalibur (Comic)

First things first, there have been several iterations of the team, but the fandom tag is used to exclusively refer to the first, namely Claremont and Davis’ team that first appeared in 1988. The comic ran for over 120 issues, with the last published in 1998. Since then all the characters have appeared in other publications, but as part of different teams. There has been one “reunion” in recent times (featuring the founding five members) but nothing set in the run of the original series has been released for over 20 years.

[ficmod]

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be eligible. Thanks for making your case!

[cookiegirl]

Hi! I'm just wondering what the case is with theatre fandoms. If say, a musical was first produced in 2007 and ran until 2008 on Broadway, but then has had a West End run and tours since, but no new material, just new performances, does that count? It's not as if anything has been added to the script/songs etc and the original Broadway cast would be seen as definitive, but there have been new casts since so, I don't know! :)

[ficmod]

Hey there - that's actually in the FAQ believe it or not! I'm counting plays/musicals by the date it was first performed, since like you said - it's (presumably) the same material regardless of how many performances there have been. Exceptions would be if a certain run or performance changed the story/plot/characters significantly, but asfaik that's fairly rare.

[(Anonymous)]

Shoujo Kakumei Utena | Revolutionary Girl Utena (Anime) - 1997

The Revolutionary Girl Utena franchise spans a number of different media, but the most prominent are the manga series published in 1996 and 1997, the anime series that aired during 1997, and the animated movie that was released in 1999. Each of these depicts the same basic set of characters but takes place in a slightly different continuity.

In 2017, the series celebrated its 20th anniversary with the release of a set of 3 manga chapters taking place after the events of the series. However, the backstories referenced in these chapters establish it as taking place in yet another continuity, one which combines elements of all three of the aforementioned continuities.

I'm specifically interested in the characters in their anime incarnations, and I feel that the new material in the manga is sufficiently set apart from the anime as to count as a different canon.

[ficmod]

I'm okay with considering the anime as a separate canon from the manga. Taking only the tv series into consideration, it falls way under the ten year mark.

If someone wants to also nominate the manga, I would like to hear your reasoning why you feel the new chapters shouldn't disqualify it! (General you, not you personally, anon.)

[marmolita]

Final Fantasy VIII (1999)

FFVIII was released in 1999. It has been re-released for additional platforms more recently, but there were no changes other than platform compatibility that I'm aware of. Some characters from FFVIII have appeared in other more recent Final Fantasy franchise games (e.g. Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts) but as the plots of those games are not at all related to the plot of VIII I believe they are separate canons.

[ficmod]

Looks good to me. Thanks!

[beatrice_otter]

How are you handling Star Trek series? Are you counting them as one large whole (in which case, no Star Trek is acceptable) or are you counting each Star Trek series differently (in which case, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT would be eligible, but not the reboot or Discovery)?

What about Batman Beyond (a cartoon that ran from 1999-2001)? It's different enough from the main corpus of Batman works (different guy in the suit, different time period, etc.) that it might warrant being eligible even though Batman as a whole is not.

What about Terminator: the Sarah Connor Chronicles (2008-2009)? The main movie franchise is inelligible, but the series has lots of plots and characters not included in any other Terminator franchise. The main characters are John and Sarah Connor, but it has lots of new characters never used elsewhere: Cameron, Derek Reese, James Ellison, Catherine and Savannah Weaver, Jesse Flores and Riley Dawson, etc. The general plotline is the familiar pattern from the Terminator movies (trying to prevent Skynet from taking over, using various time travel shenanigans) but the specific instances are different.

[ficmod]

As stated in the FAQ, the general rule is that if either the main cast of characters OR the continuity is significantly different, I will count it as a separate canon. So since most of the Star Trek TV shows follow completely new groups of characters, I would allow any of them that ended 12/31/2009 or earlier.

Same goes for comics. If you'd like to nominate a specific run of Batman, you can make a case to me on this post about why you feel it's separate enough from more recent iterations of Batman. Batman Beyond, being a discrete show with its own continuity, would be considered a separate canon from Batman as a whole. If you wanted to nominate that, though, you'd have to make a case here as to why I shouldn't disqualify it based on the comic book title of Batman Beyond, which ended in 2013.

Could you elaborate a bit more on how different the Terminator series is, and why you feel like it should be counted separately? Is it made clear in the TV show that it's not a prequel to the newer, more recent films?

Carnivale

[fhionnuisce]

Carnivale is a show which ran on HBO from 2003-2005. It was canceled prematurely. I think 5 seasons were planned. It's set in the dustbowl and involves a carnivale of people involved in an about-to-be-the-apocalypse situation. Magical realism.

Gabriel (2007)

[fhionnuisce]

A lesser known indie film from Australia, it's from 2007 and sequels were hoped for but the main actor died. (Andy Whitfield). Set in Purgatory which angels and demons are fighting over.

Ravenous (1999)

[fhionnuisce]

Ravenous is a dark comedy horror movie about a wendigo on the US frontier. It's got Robert Carlyle. It's pretty slashy.

Practical Magic (1999) (Film)

[fhionnuisce]

Practical Magic (The film) is a 1998-99 film. Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman are sisters involved in a battle with a spirit. It's a little bit of everything. It's based on a book but I am specifically interested in the film.

Re: Practical Magic (1999) (Film)

[ficmod]

Carnivale, Ravenous, and Gabriel are all fine. Practical Magic is acceptable as long as you specify your nomination is for the movie and not the book series, which had a new installment published last year.

[niewanyin]

Harry Potter: book series that ended in 2007
Percy Jackson and the Olympians: book series that ended in 2009
Avatar: The Last Airbender: tv series that ended in 2008

All have additional canon material that was released in the past ten years, but they are clearly stand alone at those dates and could be accepted with the provision that anything that came out after 2009 should not be the focus nor does have to be taken as canon with those works (i.e. no major focus on the Fantastic Beasts, Heroes of Olympus and Trials of Apollo, and Legend of Korra, with no characters that were introduced in those works allowed to be nominated, nor do the requests or the gifts have to acknowledge and can in fact contradict them if wished)

[ficmod]

Harry Potter is ineligible because of the Cursed Child play, which is a direct sequel that shares both characters and continuity.

Korra and Avatar would be considered different canons, since the cast of characters are so different. However, the Avatar comics are still being published now (the newest one being planned for March of this year), and seem to be in the same continuity as the original series. Can you tell me why the Avatar comics shouldn't count as new material?

And as I understand it, the Trials of Apollo is also a direct sequel to the original Percy Jackson series. Percy Jackson appears in all of the newer books as a major character, as well as several other characters from the original series (Annabeth Chase, Nico di Angelo, etc).

Unless any of this additional material differs significantly as far as 1. the main cast of characters, OR 2. the timeline/continuity, then they won't be eligible for this exchange. I'm open to hearing arguments either way.

[doranwen]

The Pretender last aired new material in 2001, I believe. They do have a couple of novels published in the last ten years (the most recent being 2014), but those were published specifically as the rebirth of the series, not a continuation of the original series, so I think the original show should still be eligible.

[ficmod]

I'm alright with that. Thanks!

Cowboy Bebop

[bladesandstars]

Cowboy Bebop is an anime that ran from 1998-2002, with a movie that came out in 2003. Netflix has announced a live-action series, but there's no new canon as of yet.

Re: Cowboy Bebop

[ficmod]

Sounds good to me!

[kemyss]

Would the fact FFVIII got cleared mean all final fantasies without new additions post-2009 also be eligible? Because I would love to nominate FFIX, which is much the same as FFVIII, in that it's had a couple remakes available on steam and mobile, but no additions to the story. It was published in 2000.

[ficmod]

Yeah, as long as there isn't any new story, that would be fine. If the characters appear in other games/media, I wouldn't consider that as a continuation of the canon. Same goes when a game is remastered/released for different platforms - it's kind of like when an old movie gets re-released on Blu-ray or something, isn't it? As long as there isn't like, a continuation of the plot or something, then it's fine!

Bewitched and Bonanza

[karios]

Would the Bewitched sitcom be ineligible because of the 2005 movie? I wouldn't think so, but it seemed worth checking.

Similarly does the Ponderosa series disqualify Bonanza TV? If I wanted anyone of the follow up movies, should I nom those separately?

Lastly, as a more general question: do you mind if prople nom even if they are unsure about signing up?

Re: Bewitched and Bonanza

[ficmod]

Bewitched is fine! Even if I did consider the movie the same (it isn't - totally different characters), that would still be under the ten year mark anyway.

Ponderosa (the series) is still under the ten year mark as well - same goes for the TV series released, so all of that is eligible. I'll leave how to nominate up to you - if you believe they're all part of the same continuity/canon, then you can nominate them together or separately - whichever you feel is most appropriate.

And - sure! Go right ahead. :)

[mkrobinson]

Baby Sitters Club

[originally published 1986-2000]

There was a prequel that was released in 2010 (after which some of the first books were reissued) and there are intermittent graphic novels released (these are comic interpretations of original series books).

I would like this series to be considered regardless because the bulk of the canon was released prior to these dates.

[mkrobinson]

Sweet Valley High [1983–2003]
Sweet Valley Twins [1986-1999]
Sweet Valley Junior High [1999-2001]
Sweet Valley Senior Year [1999-2003]
Sweet Valley University [1993-2000]

Though there was a "sequel" to the original series that was released in 2011, followed by a series of e-book novellas, I believe that at the very least Twins, JR High, Senior Year, and University should not be disqualified. The continuation was nominally a sequel fic to SVH, and barely follows canon established in that series, let alone in the others

[ficmod]

So both this one and Babysitter's Club are, technically speaking, disqualified by the prequel/sequel novels that you mention here. I'd consider making an exception for Babysitter's Club, since the novel is just a few months over the 12/31/09 cut off date, and it also is just one novel. But the Sweet Valley books were still being written by its original author, following the original two characters, all the way up until 2012. Can you explain a bit more as to why you think they should be considered as a separate canon?

Stargates SG-1 and Atlantis

[mlravenwrites]

Both SG-1 and Atlantis' TV and film runs were over before 12/31/09, but there have been novels released more recently. I'm pretty sure that the novels count as obscure, but I definitely could be wrong.

Re: Stargate Universe, I'd argue that it has a sprinkling of cameos from SG-1 and Atlantis characters, but its principle cast is entirely different.

Re: Stargates SG-1 and Atlantis

[ficmod]

I'll definitely consider the separate shows as separate canons. All part of the same continuity but they're pretty distinct casts, so while Universe would be ineligible, SG1 and SGA are definitely old enough.

Since the tie-in novels/comics are by different creators, and significantly less well-known than the tv shows, I'm okay accepting them as separate.

[(Anonymous)]

I am curious about Babylon 5. After the main canon was The Lost Tales, which were TV movies he said he wanted to put in the original canon but couldn't.

Then separate spinoff shows were Crusade and Legend of the Ranger, both of which were quick and then done.

But I am not aware if there are B5 comics still in production and didn't find reference to that so far. Curious your thoughts, since I can nominate 6 things and this might be my fifth.

[kangeiko]

I was going to propose Babylon 5. The Lost Tales was the last of the canon and it came out in 2007 so I'd assume both Babylon 5 and Crusade would be eligible. (Legend of the Rangers was 2002 and AFAIK only a pilot episode with a different cast.) There's nothing fictional in the B5 universe in production, nor has there been any for some time - JMS frequently answers Qs about various options on his twitter to basically say WB have the rights locked down tight & hate the show so they're basically refusing to let anything be done to it (like sprucing it up for a Blu ray or doing a spin off).

[kangeiko]

I have a few I'd like to argue for, please. I've already mentioned Babylon 5, above.

The others from my list are:

Man from UNCLE - the TV show. If I understand the FAQ correctly, this should still be eligible despite the reboot film?

Blake’s 7 - there is the Big Finish audio, but I'd argue that it's not as widely known, and in a different medium (radio plays) which I'd argue are the same principle as tie-in novels. Other qualifying fandoms (e.g. SG-1) also have Big Finish dramas so I'd argue that for consistency B7 should also be qualifying.

Xena - although there are comics, they are less well known and I don't think they're considered part of the canon / a formal continuation of the show, but are a tie-in.

I think my remaining nominations are a bit more cut and dry!

[ficmod]

Correct - the film version features different characters. I'll accept the TV show.

I'm alright accepting Blake's 7, and the Xena comics that came out post-2009 are iffy as far as continuity, I agree, so I'll accept that as well. Thanks!

[elperian]

Hello! I'm here to ask about Farscape, which ended as a tv show in 2004 but which, like Xena, has tie-in comics which are less well-known (as in, most people in the fandom have not read them). Would that be allowed under the same rules as Xena?

[ficmod]

Farscape is fine with me. :)

Highlander

[celli]

Highlander: the Series (1992-1998)

The most recent activity in the franchise, per Wikipedia/Goodreads, has been Big Finish Audio releases from 2009-2011; however, they're so obscure they're not even available to purchase on the Big Finish site (darn it). The last major activity, tie-ins aside, was in 2007 when Highlander: The Source was released.

Re: Highlander

[ficmod]

There can only be one! Yeah this is fine. :)

Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman (TV/Made for TV movies) and The Young Riders (TV)

[melsheartsthings]

Hi! I'm interested and looking forward to this! on to my eligibility questioning fandoms:

Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman (TV & Made for TV movies)– Beth Sullivan (Creator), CBS (original network) (1993-1998 [series and most tie-in books], 1999 [1st movie], 2001 [2nd movie])


The series centers on Doctor Michaela “Doc Mike” Quinn, an independent-spirited, female physician from Boston, Massachusetts, the fifth daughter (four sisters) of a wealthy doctor who encouraged and favored her and his wife, Elizabeth Quinn. After her father's death, Michaela answers an advertisement for a town doctor in the town of Colorado Springs, ion the Colorado territory. Shortly after her arrival and mostly poor reception by the townsfolk, she is made the adoptive mother of three newly-orphaned children, as this was their mother's last dying wish. With their help and that of the ruggedly handsome widowed “mountain man” Byron Sully (who goes by his surname only), Doc Mike soon settles into life in Colorado Springs and eventually she and Sully wed. Set in the late 1860's into the 1870's, the show covers a variety of topics and issues as well as historical events (such as the Sand Creek massacre, the battle of Washita, and so on) in addition to many interesting medical issues and mysteries of the time. There were two made for TV movies that followed the cancellation of the series and served as final wrap-ups for the show. The first made-for-TV movie was released in 1999 and the second in 2001.

Tie-ins: There are some tie-in novels, most of which were released during the series' original run, and the last and most recent of which was released in 2011, but I wouldn't consider any of them truly canon as none are written by anyone who worked on the show as I don't recognize any of the author names as corresponding to names of script writers, however some are based (probably loosely) on show episodes, to be completely honest. Seeing as the 2011 book is basically an AU “licensed Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman fanfic sold in stores for money” dealing with the potential events that would happen if Doc Mike married her one time fiancee, the solider David leading up to her running away with her kids, I personally think we can safely dismiss at least the 2011 novel as being iffy, canon-wise and connection-wise. Also several of the tie-in books written during the years the show ran were written in German and never translated into English, although they were reprinted elsewhere abroad and thus translated into other European languages including French (i suppose if one obtained the french translations, one cpuld then translate those into english but still you lose something in that kind of translation). [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Quinn,_Medicine_Woman#Novels ]

There was also a very short-lived spin-off centered on the town's saloon/brothel keeper, Hank Lawson called California that only had a pilot filmed (which was never aired) in 1997.



The Young Riders (TV)- Ed Spielman (Creator), ABC (Original network) (1989-1992)

A highly fictionalized account of the operations of the Pony Express and the lives of six young Pony Express Riders. This series ran from 1989 to 1992, and was set roughly in the years leading up to the Civil War, in the Nebraska territory. It was short-lived (compared to shows like Bonanza, or the Big Valley, or Little House on the Prarire, or even Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman), but it was a really interesting show in it's own right. No follow-up made for TV movies, spin-offs or tie-in books here.

Re: Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman (TV/Made for TV movies) and The Young Riders (TV)

[ficmod]

Both of these look good to me!

Birds of Prey (Vol. 1)

[lookatallthemoresigive]

Hi, I'm looking forward to this! Birds of Prey Vol. 1 ran from January 1999 – April 2009 so I think it'd be eligible, hopefully!

Re: Birds of Prey (Vol. 1)

[ficmod]

As long as it's contained to volume 1, it's good!

[luciferxdamien]

Rurouni Kenshin (1996-1998 Anime Series)

The Rurouni Kenshin series spans over different media types, from manga, anime, and live action films. The original manga concluded on September 21, 1999 and the original TV anime series concluded September 8, 1998, and the film series is possibly still ongoing. While the different media types in the franchise take the core plotlines from the manga, they go about them in different ways, creating their own versions of canon and continuity. I know the manga is ineligible, since a sequel manga started publishing in 2017, The Hokkaido Arc, but the anime series that ended in 1998 is the version of canon I am most interested in, and since nothing new has been added to it in 20 years, I think it should be eligible.

(For the record, a 2 episode OVA was released in 2011-2012, The New Kyoto Arc, but it creates its own continuity and shouldn't disqualify the 1998 anime.)


Inuyasha - A Feudal Fairy Tale 1996-2008

The Inuyasha manga wrapped up on June 18, 2008 and the original anime series finished on September 12, 2004, however, the manga was not finished being adapted into an anime until March 29, 2010, with the Final Act, AKA Inuyasha season 7. I believe Inuyasha should be eligible since the 2010 Final Act anime was just adapting previously published material from the manga.


Hellsing - 1997-2008

Much like Inuyasha, the original manga run of the series finished

September 30, 2008, but the Hellsing Ultimate OVA series concluded December 26, 2012, which just adapted the manga material and doesn't differ significantly from already published canon. However, Hellsing is a bit of a weird case as the series isn't technically finished. Kohta Hirano had started a prequel series, Hellsing: The Dawn, and he had stated he would continue publishing the prequel once the main series was over, but, the last chapter of The Dawn was released February 15, 2006 and no new, original Hellsing material has been released since September 30th, 2008. I think Hellsing should be eligible since that while the series isn't technically concluded, nothing new has been published since September 30th, 2008 and the OVA series that was released after that date was just using previously published canon.

[ficmod]

If they're just adaptations then that's fine with me. And I've previously accepted anime and manga versions as different canons, so Rurouni Kenshin is fine with me, too. :)

[facethestrange]

What about Battlestar Galactica (2003)? It ended in 2009, so that would definitely count, but there are 2 questions:

- The movie The Plan (same characters and continuity, basically a direct extension of the show). It is usually listed as released in 2010, but wikipedia says "The film premiered exclusively on DVD, Blu-ray Disc and digital download on October 27, 2009. It premiered on January 10, 2010 on Syfy, on April 2, 2010 on Sky Premiere in the United Kingdom, and on August 6, 2011 on Space in Canada." So it does sound like it was actually first released in 2009.

- The prequel series Caprica (2010) and Blood & Chrome (2012). The continuity is the same as far as I know, but Caprica doesn't share any characters with the original series, and Blood & Chrome only has one character many years pre-canon (played by a different actor), and every other member of the cast is different.

ETA: Questions about 3 more canons. :)

The L Word (2004-2009)? A sequel has been announced and it will possibly start airing this year, but so far even the release date is not known (as far as I'm aware).

Star Trek: Voyager (1995-2001). It does have novels, but I don't think they're important enough?

And this one is not really a question, just a confirmation:

Dead Like Me (2003-2004, with a movie in 2009)?

[ficmod]

Caprica and Blood and Chrome would not disqualify it, since they have different casts. The movie's original release is listed as Oct 2009, so that means it falls under the cut-off date.

If there's no new material released yet, then the L Word would be eligible, as would Dead Like Me. And most of the Voyager novels were published in 2009 or before anyway, so I won't disqualify that, either.